i'm chris wallace. breaking news. nsa leaker edward snowden leave hong kong and avoids extradition. plus, immigration picks up steam in the u.s. senate. the deal would mean more patrols, more fences and more money along the southern border. >> we are investing e resources in securing the border that have never been invested before. >> opponents are unmoved. >> as long as they insisted on legalization first before border security the bill won't pass. >> we'll discuss immigration reform and the split inside the gop with a member of the gang of

8, senator lindsey graham and senator mike lee. then the special election in massachusetts, just two days for the vote to fill john kerry's old seat. and political heavy weights on both sides come out in force. we'll speak with former navy seal and businessman gabriel gomez. it's a "fox news sunday" scluf. plus the fed announces plans to wind down the economic stimulus. we'll ask the sunday panel about fear in the financial markets. and our power player of the week. overseeing the only national park for the performing arts. all right now. hello again from fox news in washington. nsa leaker edward snowden is on the move today. with the u.s. seeking his extradition, hong kong authorities allowed him to leave

the country, reportedly on a flight to moscow. russian news agencies say he's booked on a flight from moscow to cuba on monday. joining us now to kiss cuss the split in the gop over immigration reform are two leading republicans. senator lindsey graham is a member of the gang of 8 pushing the need for reform. senator mike lee opposes the legislation and authored ab e-book, why john roberts. let's start with snowden. senator graham, what do you make of hong kong authorities allowing snowden to go? they say our extradition papers were not in full compliance with the law and what leverage do we have over moscow if they decide to let him go to another country? >> i'd like to find out why our papers were not in compliance. that would be a big mistake by

the department of justice. i don't think he's a hero. i believe he compromised the national security program designed to find out what terrorists were up to. the freedom trail is not exactly china, russia, cuba, venezuela. i hope we'll chase him, bring him to justice and let the russians know there will be consequences if they harbor this guy. >> the key decision over the next 24 hours has to be made by moscow, senator graham. should we put pressure on them now -- hold him there? >> absolutely. they want a good relationship with the united states. they should hold this fellow and send him home for justice. >> senator lee, are we basically helpless here as ed snowden thumbs his nose at the united states with the help of the chinese and now apparently with the help of the russians and what if he goes to another country whether it's cuba,

iceland or somewhere in south america? >> i don't know if i would use the word "helpless, " but we are in a precarious position as is mr. snowden. i have concerns about what the nsa has been doing, but i think mr. snow dense is delusional if he thinks he'll find a country with a better human rights record in moscow or in havana or caracas. he's in for a rude awakening. >> what does it tell you if snowden is headed to those countries rather than the u.s.? >> if he's looking for a place with a better human rights record with the united states he won't find it in those countrieses. >> let's go to immigration reform which is the reason we invited you here. with the additioning of more than $40 billion in new border enforcement will the senate this week pass comprehensive immigration reform. if so, how many votes?

senator graham, let's start with you. >> the bill will pass. i think we are on the verge of getting 70 votes. that's my goal. it's always been my goal. we are very, very close to 70 votes. the corker amendment gets us over the top. >> we'll talk in detail about that in a moment. let me ask you for a general prediction. senator lee, i know you are opposed to the legislation. do you agree it will pass with a wide majority, something like 70 votes. >> it is like ohly to pass and may well be along the margin senator graham suggested. the sponsors of the bill had the best of intentions. in my opinion the best intentions aren't enough when dealing with a 1200-page bill. they promised under the bill illegal immigration would be a thing of the past. it won't. cbo told us this week ten years from now we'll have 6 to 8 million illegal immigrants in this country. they told us it would be tough but fair. it's beneath. it's not tough on those who

broke the law and not fair to those patiently waiting in line to come to this country legally. perhaps worst of all we learned late friday that they are going to replace the gang of 8's bill, a thousand pages, with a 1200-page corker hoven amendment. this is a provision few people have read and fewer understand. we all want immigration reform. this bill is not the right vehicle for getting there. >> all right. let's talk about this amendment which has apparently changed the calculus and added 10 to 15 more republican votes. i's being called the border surge amendment. let's look specifically at what it would do. double the number of border agents to 40,000. complete 700 miles of new fencing. deploy drones, radar and ground sensors. full implementation of e-verify for employers and beef up entry/exit tracking for people on visas.

senator lee, is your problem that you don't think even with this $40 billion in extra border enforcement, you still don't think it's going to work? or is your problem the sequencing, the idea that it's going to allow a provisional legal status for the 11 million people, immigrants who are already here before you get all of this border enforcement in place? >> as a proponent of immigration reform my problem has been sequencing and the fact that it's not a good idea to try to attack the entire problem at once. that's how you end up with a 1200 page bill. with the sequence of this bill in particular, we have to look to the fact that the pathway to citizenship begins basically on day one. but it will take many, many years, if not decades to fully implement the border security measures. >> senator graham, you say many republicans who were opposed to talk about border security really just don't favor a path

to citizenship. but the congressional budget office -- and this is something senator lee just pointed out. the congressional budget office said your gang of 8 bill would only reduce illegal immigration by 25%. >> they are talking about the entry e/exit problem. 48% of the people here illegally overstayed their visas. there will be improvements in that area. we practically militarized the border. i have been hearing for year, let's regain our sovrnt. we secured our border in a way i could not have imagined four, five years ago. this whole border security amendment, i think, is the most aggressive attempt to regain our sovereignty. this bill reduces our deficit by $890 billion. it's good for our economy. this bill is good for our national security. no one can get a green card until border security measures

are up and running, until e-verify is up and running controlling a job in america. as to the 11 million who will have a hard pathway to citizenship. they have to get in the back of the line. they can't cut in line. they have to pass two english proficiency exams. i reject the idea of becoming the mideast or europe where you have people with a legal status who can't be part of america. america is different. e pluribus unum, out of many, one. this is tough practical solution to 11 million and most importantly, if we do the bill, amnesty is the status quo. if we e do this bill there will be no third way of immigration. >>. >> let me ask you about the idea that this will be a huge 1200-page bill. i heard you complain about it during obama care, the idea that you have a huge bill nobody read and why not take it in

incremental, bite-sized pieces. why not in this case? >> well, let's look at it this way. give the republicans all the border security you want and all the legal immigration you want and trust the republicans to deal fairly with 11 million. that's not going to sell to a democrat. i'm not going to accept an exempt where they get legalization on a pathway to citizenship. then they give me border security. then they give me legal immigration reform. you have to do it together. we tied border security and legal immigration reform to green kwacard status. until we secure the border, get legal immigration reform in place you can't get a green card which would put you on a citizenship status. we tied the two together. that's the only way to do this. this is a great solution for our economy and our national security. i'm very proud of this bill. >> even if the senate passeses

imfwrags reform this week, it still has to go to the house. senator lee, you have said it will be dead on arrival in the house. house republicans are talking about the kind of incremental approach i know you favor. let's deal with enforcement first. after that we can deal with the 11 million illegals who are in this country. let's look at something john boehner said. >> it's border security and confidence that we have the border secured bf we begin to go down the bath of addressing illegal immigration issues and legal immigration issues. >> senator lee, lindsey graham says -- and a lot of democrats say -- that will kill the legislation. they will not accept border enforcement first and a promise of dealing with legalization of the 11 million people who were already here afterwards. >> that's what they have said. it's what they want to be the case. the house of representatives has it right. in any event the house of

representatives said border security first. they are doing exactly the right thing. they are dealing with it in the right sequence. the house judiciary committee passed out of committee this week. two security measures. two things to bring about robust immigration reform and a step by step process. i think that's the approach we ought to be taking. what's making this contentious, what's making it politically divisive is that the senate gang of oh 8 insisted on wrapping the issues up into one 1200-page bill. they are putting the single most controversial, confrontational issue -- that of amnesty and ultimate citizenship -- into a 1200-page bill. >> we have two minutes left. i want you to split it evenly, if you will. needless to say there is a lot of politics in this. president obama pushed for passage of the senate bill this week at his weekend media address. take a look. >> that's what comprehensive immigration reform looks like --

stronger enforcement, a smarter legal system, a pathway to citizenship, a vibrant growing economy that's fairer on the middle class. >> is president obama doing enough to push this, and if republicans are seen -- whether in the senate, unlikely, or in the house, much more likely, as stopping the comprehensive immigration reform, what will be the political fallout as the gop tries to reach out to hispanic voters. >> president obama has been better on immigration than senator obama. senator obama did the union's bidding and helped take the bill down in 2006 and 2007. every time we've asked him to do something he's come through. when he does things on his own it's been a disaster from the white house. as to the republican party, here is my firm belief. america is not divided on this, mike. 70% of americans including americans who support an earned pathway to citizenship where you

get in the bab of the line, learn the language and pay a fi. to the republican party this is a chance to improve our economy, reduce the deficit by $890 billion to get border security you will never see in your lifetime, regain sovrnt. if it fails and we are blamed for its failure our party is in trouble with hispanics, not because we are conservative but because of the rhetoric and the way we handled this issue. i want to get reattached to the community, pass comprehensive immigration reform and grow the party. the party has to be bigger than utah and south carolina. the hispanic community is close to our values but we have driven them away over this issue. let's fix the problem for the good of the country and the party. this bill does that. >> senator lee, let me pick up on what senator graham said to you. mitt romney got only 27% of the hispanic vote. in november, 50,000 new hispanic citizens reach voting age.

every month in this country. if your party is seen as killing imkbrags e reform, won't you see that at the polls for decades to come? >> if we turn immigration into a political football, everyone loses. we learned that from the paths. what the american people want is to make sure our border is secure and that e we fixed our legal immigration process, especially before we legalize, much less grant citizenship to 11 million people, treating them all the same whether they overstayed visas or crossed in illegally in the first place. we have to remember cbo told us this will be bad for wages, bad for unemployment. this is not the right solution. >> senator lee, senator graham, thanks for joining us today to talk about this. we'll watch what the senate does this week. thank you, gentlemen. >> thank you. >> up next, a big e election tuesday in massachusetts in the

deep blue state of massachusetts. can gabriel gomez pull off another gop upset? we'll ask the republican candidate for john kerry's senate seat next. vo: i've always thought the best part about this country is that we get to create our future. you get to take ownership of the choices you make. the person you become. i've been around long enough to recognize the people who are out there owning it. the ones getting involved and staying engaged. they're not sitting by as their life unfolds. and they're not afraid to question the path they're on. because the one question they never want to ask is "how did i end up here?" i started schwab for those people. people who want to take ownership of their investments,

like they do in every other aspect of their lives. every day we're working to and to keep our commitments. and we've made a big commitment to america. bp supports nearly 250,000 jobs here. through all of our energy operations, we invest more in the u.s. than any other place in the world. in fact, we've invested over $55 billion here in the last five years - making bp america's largest energy investor. our commitment has never been stronger.

massachusetts voters decide in a special e election tuesday who will fill john kerry's senate seat. they're getting a lot of advice from national figures. democratic congressman ed markey with 37 years in the house is

running against gabriel gomez, a republican business it is man and former navy seal and a political newcomer. can gomez pull off the same upset in the heavily democratic state that scott brown did in a special election in 2010. gomez joins us from boston now. congressman markey declined our invitation. according to the latest real clear politics average of recent polls in massachusetts you're running well behind congressman markey. he's at almost 52%. you're at 39%. a margin of 12.5 points. there is a new poll out today that shows you trailing by eight points. whatever the martin, it is a big deficit. how do you turn it around in 48 hours? >> we can definitely win, chris. i'm confident. see, our message is resonating among independents, democrats, republicans. his message is a narrow sliver of the democratic party. we're giving people a reason to fight and congressman markey has

probably been the most egregious campaign making me somebody i'm not. he's scared and doesn't want to talk about his record. people are enthusiastic voting for me than against somebody else. >> at this point in the polls is he leading between 8 and 12 points. >> these polls are up and down, all over the place. bottom line is this e e election is about putting people before politics. congressman markey has had 37 years down there to get things done in terms of immigration reform, tax e reform, entitlement reform. i will keep my word and i don't need 17 years. that's the message here and i'm confident on june 25, in two days i'm asking the people to vote for me and we'll be successful. >> you have crystallized your main argument. i want to ask you about it. you say markey has been in congress for 37 years.

you say he's been ine e effective. he debates that. you say give you 17 months which is the time left in john kerry's term, and you will get big things done. if you are elected you will be one of 100 members of the u.s. senate. how will you break the grid lock in washington single handedly? >> chris, if a navy seal can talk a peace corps volunteer into marrying him, i can work with anybody. i look forward to working with president obama, with senator warren, with all the senators and congressmen in d.c. i have been bipartisan my whole life. that's the problem in d.c. now. we have a high level of cynicism, fiscal mismanagement and hyper partisanship. the issues are so big we need to go down, reach across the aisle and get thingses done. our message is resonating among not just republicans but democrats. congressman markey has had 37

years and hasn't succeeded in his mission. i'm mission-focus spmd markey's main argument against you is if you win you are just another vote for the republicans in the senate. take a look. >> they want and need him in washington in order to advance a radical republican agenda. >> in a liberal state where the gop agenda is not all that popular, where do you differ from most senate republicans? >> see, congressman markey wisheses he was running against somebody else. i believe in gay marriage. i'm for immigration reform. i think we need to have a background check. i'm ashamed only four republicans voted for the bill. i think the nra is wrong on this bill. there are a lot of areas i don't

agree with. congressman markey wishes he was running against somebody other than me. >> you say you are for expanded background checks but perhaps the issue markey hit you hardest on is gun control. take a look. >> my opponent opposes an assault weapon ban. my opponent opposes a ban on high capacity magazines that attach to assault weapons that turn them into weapons of war. >> so that's the point. yes, you may be for the expanded background check, but you are against the weapons ban, magazine, high capacity magazine ban and according to the polls, most massachusetts voters disagree with you on those. >> right. this is an example of congressman markey not knowing how to solve the problem. we need to ban all weapons from the wrong people. that's what's going to make our communities, schools and kids safer. in order to do that, we have to pass the expanded background

check and ties to mental health. only one of us can get more republicans and conservative democrats to vote for the bill to e we go from 54 to 60 is e he. i can go down with the experience as a s.e.a.l., the the ability get conservative democrats and republicans to pass this bill. we'll get our communities, schools and kids safer. that's the problem we need to solve. >> back when john kerry left the senate in january you wrote a letter to the democratic governor of massachusetts, duvall patrick and you asked him to appoint you to the senate. on gun control and immigration reform you wrote this, i support the positions that president obama has taken on these issues and you can be assured i will keep my word and work on these issues as i have promised. the question, mr. gomez, is how could you promise that when you opposed the ban on assault weapons and high capacity magazines that president obama was very much pushing at that

time? >> when i wrote that letter i was raising my hand like a navy guy i have been my whole career. i want to volunteer and serve the people of massachusetts. i am for the immigration reform bill. that's a group of eight. i want to make it a gang of nine. i hope senator warren makes it a gang of ten. on gun control the problem we need to solve is making sure we ban all weapons from the wrong people. that's what the bill does. i want to make sure we pass it when it comes back for a vote hopefully later this year. >> i have to ask you, at the time you wrote the letter president obama -- this is long before toomey manchin. you wrote, promised, assured governor patrick that you supported president obama's positions on those issues. have you changed your mind or wasn't that true? >> i meant in the letter i support his position on getting immigration reform done and gun control. solving the problem is making sure we ban all weapons from the

wrong people. that's what this bill does. i'm ashamed only four republicans voted for the bill. i want to get more republicans and more conservative democrats. i want to make sure we solve the problems and get the right solution down there as opposed to not solving the problem. >> according to one recent poll your unfavorable rating in massachusetts is 33% which isn't bad. but only 34% have a favorable opinion of you. my question is as a successful businessman, a former navy s.e.a.l., a hispanic, why are vow had a tough time making the affirmative case for gabriel gomez? >> the polls move oh up and down, chris. when we go out and meet the people and get our message out there, people arer very enthusiastic. they are independents, democrats, and that's why on tuesday, june 25 i humbly ask people to vote for me. they will come out and show there is a reason to vote for someone as opposed to against

somebody. i'm confident our message is getting out there. the polls move up and down. i know we'll win june 25 because we are putting the people before party and politics. i need 17 months to go down there and do the job for the people that they want us to get done. >> it's been suggested that if you lose on tuesday that it might not be all bad for you. you would have gained tremendous name recognition. this is your first race. you will have gained experience in campaigning, debating and all of that and you would be well placed to run again. question, win or loese will you run again for office in massachusetts? >> i'm confident i will win but as a famous general said, i shall return. people are excited about the candidacy and more people can continue to help out at www.gomez forma.com. i'm confident between now and tuesday we'll close the gap and be successful on the 25th. >> as you say, i shall return.

assuming you were to lose, some people say you would run again in the full e election, not the special election, in 2014 against ed markey who would then have a record in the senate over the next 17 months. does that make sense to you? >> well, if somehow congressman markey does win, nothing will change. the only thing that will change he'll go from one building across the street to the next. we'll have the cynicism, fiscal mismanagement and hyper partisanship. i can't imagine what congressman markey will do in 17 months he hasn't done in 37 years. nothing will change. i'm confident that because of that and i need only 17 months to prove myself people will come to my side. >> you have learned a lot in months as a campaigner. even getting a website. thank you, sir. we'll watch the results tuesday night. >> thank you, sir. i appreciate it. >> coming up, edward snowden leaves congress long.

we'll bring in our sunday panel to discuss what the obama administration can do. ♪

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. you are looking live at the arrival area at moscow international airport. there is a crowd there because it is believed the plane carrying edward snowden, the nsa leaker, has just landed, he's on the plane and authorities are waiting for him and the media are waiting for him to clear customs and arrive in moscow.

with the u.s. seeking snowden's extradition he was allowed to leave congress long reportedly on the flight to moscow and supposedly to one of several other countries. it's time for our sunday group. we'll return to that picture if and when edward snowden goes through the door. there are a lot of chinese visitors to moscow getting a warm reception. here is the sunday group. julie pace cover it is white house for the associated plesz. bill crystal of the weekly standard. bob woodward from the washington post. julie, as the white house correspondent for a.p., what are they saying about the extraordinary developments? they sought the extradition of edward snowden from hong kong authorities. they said the paperers weren't in order and they let him go reportedly on the flight to moscow. >> right. officials are obviously in close contact with officials in hong kong. one thing i would point out is yesterday we had this stern

warning from a senior administration official saying if congress long didn't quickly extradite edward snowden to the u.s. it would complicate the bilateral relationship, raise questions about hong kong's commitment to the rule of lou. i talked to an official who said it raises concerns in the u.s. about hong kong and their involvement in the situation. i talked to the lawyer for wikileaks in the u.s. who said the organization is working with edward snowden. he didn't have details where edward snowden is going but said we shouldn't focus on extradition treaties. a country can have an extradition treaty and claim political exception. it's more complicated than that. >> your thoughts? >> i spoke with an intelligence official and said, what's up with this? he said there are a million flights from hong kong to ecuador, iceland, other places. why moscow? the guy said, think about it.

interpol may have a warrant for the guy. we have asked interpol to keep an eye out for him traveling. that's what you do when pursuing a fugitive abroad. so it's the airline as much. the russian government-controlled airline would not, when it lands in the moscow airport serve an arrest warrant. if it were british airways or something they might do that. interesting that the russian government is basically colluding with the chinese government, and whatever place he'll end up to avoid us bringing this guy to justice. >> wikileaks is involved in this. they say they have lawyers on the plane. wikileaks has leaked thousands of documents from bradley manning. also there are diplomats from another unnamed country. one doesn't know if it's russia or if country where he hopes to

seek asylum also on the plane with snowden. bob, you said a lot. these things are special. >> it shouldn't turn into a circus where we are chasing o.j. simpson in his white bronco. the real question is whose interests are being served by the leaks? it's clearly a serious matter. there's been no demonstrated abuse that somehow this information that the nsa had was used in a way that's illegal or inappropriate. there is a lot we should focus on here. over 40 years i had six cases of people coming in like snowden. sometimes they had stories that were important to print. ben bradley, the editor, decided not. i have not heard a good answer.

we will, i think in time. whether we needed to know this, i know with the washington post, they are b careful about it. there are elements of it not t out. there are elements of it snowden may not know. may not understand what he unleashed here. we ought to focus on those things. >> the washington post along with the guardian was a paper that broke the original story. they broke the prison story about the internet surveillance. are you suggesting perhaps your paper should not have done that? >> no. i think they did it carefully. there is information they didn't use. this should be debated. i think it surprised lots of people. we're going to have the debate. even president obama said he welcomes this debate. i'm sure it was an after thought. >> he didn't do anything about it and hasn't talked about it

since. your thoughts? >> my first thought is that we need to think about what kind of damage if any the done. his isn't the first time the program exists. it was broken by usa today and others seven years ago. how much damage has it done that people were trying to defend ourselves know this vast database of numbers which can be searched in case they reach out to somebody in the united states by telephone. it would be better if they didn't know that. how much better is not ponderable at this point. does whatever information this character has that hasn't come out yet pose a threat of further damage? what came out this week didn't

do that. so far this hasn't been so damaging. nor has it been that revelatory in my opinion. >> i want to go back to this question. we know the chinese had some comment about it didn't comply with our laws which seems to be a fairly legalistic dodge on their part. allegedly in moscow it would indicate he knew he was going to be safe in moscow and that putin and the russians weren't going to turn over to the u.s. embassy. what do they make of it and what does it say about relations with the two countries which we have always had a somewhat uneasy relationship. >> the relationship between china and the u.s. and the relationship between russia and the u.s. has been at the forefront of administration foreign policy discussions now given the president's meeting

last week with vladimir putin, his meeting with jinping. these are complicated relationships. not countries where we can just call and have an expectation that they will agree with us and agree with our position on this. they obviously have their own interests in this. in china there are questions about whether the things are being done by the u.s. and edward snowden said he had information about that as well. it's clear in the choices he made that he either had guidance about how he was going to be treated or had an expectation about the relationships we have. >> this is a key point. he wanted to get the documents out. they said at the end of the week president obama was meeting with the chinese premier and wanted to prevent -- bob asked whose interest interest it served. it served china's efforts to

look at u.s. spying. the next revelations were before the g-8 summit in london which helps putin. the notion that snowden is a flaky guy seems to coincide with the foreign policy interests of our enemies. >> there is hardly evidence of a conspiracy. having seen too many of these things there is randomness toyoto it. you can't control the timing. >> e he does seem to have leaked things at a particularly inopportune time. >> i don't think it affects the relationship. unless the chinese sit around and say, hey, we are going to get good stuff from this guy. we'll take care of him and help him. >> all right. we have to take a break. we'll continue to watch and see if edward snowden comes out the door. we don't know if he'll come out with the other tourists and visitors or whether the russians

will take him out another door which is possible. coming up, is it time to end the stimulus the economy is e recovering but the financial markets aren't confident.

there's just something about a concert outdoors. >> it's maroon or magenta and the concert starts. >> stay tuned. we'll be right back.

if the data -- we will ease the pressure by gradually reducing the pace of purchases. however any need to consider applying the brakes by raising short-term rates is still far in the future. >> that doesn't sound frightening, but those remarks by fed chairman ben bernanke this week spurred a global sell-off in the markets which fear interest rates will rise and economic growth will slow. we are back with the panel. the dow dropped 560 points after ben bernanke made those -- to most people -- unintelgable remarks. what does it tell you about confidence in this economy without the huge injection of

money from the fed? >> it tells me there is a large subset of investors who are in the stock market now principally because they don't want to fight the fed and believe the economy isn't strong enough to stand on oh its own hind legs and who are in the stock market because you can't get a return from owning bonds. interest rates are too low. you go to the stock market, equities. these are people who don't generally prefer equities under normal circumstances. they have been terrified that the day will come when the fed will pull the plug on the stimulus and they don't want to be in the market when it happens. some day in the not distant future he may raise rates and these people all bailed at once. i would be surprise fd the market doesn't begin to creep back up. i suspect it will. in the end what drives the stock market is corporate profits.

if corporate profits are strong enough to create the scenario bernanke described which is an economy at cruising speed there will be good reasons to be in the stock market. >> jay carney was asked about this and refused to say anything about bernanke's comments. behind the scenes as a good reporter do they think it was too soon for bernanke to raise the possibility that the fed at some point in the not so distant future will stop buying $85 billion a month in bonds. >> even behind the scenes the fed is something the white house is careful talking about because of what you saw. any comment from the fed can impact the markets. any comment from the white house can impact markets. the one thing they would tell you is something over shadowed which is the reason bernanke brought up the idea of ending the bond buying program is he sees the economy strength theng.

that's good news for the white house. the one thing they would point to and a lot of american people would say the economy for most americans is not wall street. the economy is not improving significantly. you have conversations in the fed and wall street it is a disconnect. >> if the fed raises interest rates that can effect the mortgage rates and all kinds of things. it raises the question whether or not it was a mistake for the fed to be attached. did the economy and all of us become addicted to easy money? >> i think so. i e-mailed four different economists and financial types. took the words out of my mouth. i think, yes, there was a reasonable reason for an emergency intervention in 2008.

keeping zero interest rate going for five years is asking for trouble down the roads. i'm afraid at some point we'll pay the price. i think the zero interest rate regime was good for wall street, big banks and big government which can borrow cheap. if interest rates were higher we would see an impact on the deficit. it's bad for small savers. it's been bad for small business actually. community banks don't benefit from this regime. i think the bernanke policies are part of an overall set of policies which characterized the obama administration. obama care, dodd frank. good for big business, big government, big wall street and not good for middle class america for small savers and small businesses. >> your thoughts on bernanke's comments and what it says about the reaction from the markets. >> first of all, the strategy is risky. five years effectively 0% rates. no one has done it.

sounded like green span. the idea that it's not going to last forever sent a real shock to the markets. the looming question is what's the real condition of the american economy because this is an artificial boost to it. if you take the art fish yal ti out, where do we go? i think this should be roman numeral one for obama and the congress. they've got to do something. their role in the economy. they have just punted by and large. >> let's pick up on that. as julie said, there is the argument that in its own way.

the inflation is low. it may be tepid but growth is continuing and this shows the economy is recovering. >> when you've got interest rates at this level and stimulus from that and the economy strengthens to the point we have reasonably ro oh bust growth. that's what a fed chief has to be concerned about. it doesn't blow up the force of whatever recovery is going on. in time to prevent an outbreak of inflation. once the inflation genie is out of the bottle, it's difficult to put it back in. a massive recession was when interest rates were raised so we

went through a nasty recession with unemployment much higher than the most recent one. that's what bernanke is trying to head off. this is a dangerous game. he's playing with fire and has been for years. it can get us out. >> the president made interesting comments this week. he said the chairman has already stayed at the fed. i will get the quote right here. longer than he wanted or was supposed to. does that mean bernanke is gone when the term ends in january and is there a line on who might replace him? >> it sounded like bernanke won't be sticking around. he's stayed about the average length of time for a fed chairman. alan green span stayed for the average. one of the names for a replacement is tim geithner, former treasury secretary. pros and cons come with that name out there. >> in 30 seconds has he been a

good or bad fed chairman? >> it's like green span. it often comes years later when people look at it and say, oh, they missed the housing bubble. >> thank you, panel. see you next week. don't forget to check out panel plus where the group picks up. follow us on twitter @fox news sunday. no word on edward snowden in moscow. up next, our power player of the week holding a music festival in a national park. a simple questi: how old is the oldest person you've known? we gave people a sticker and had them show us. we learned a lot of us have known someone who's lived well into their 90s. and that's a great thing. but even though we're living longer, one thing that hasn't changed much is the official retirement age. ♪ the question is how do you make sure you have the money you need to enjoy all of these years. ♪

every day we're working to and to keep our commitments. and we've made a big commitment to america. bp supports nearly 250,000 jobs here. through all of our energy operations, we invest more in the u.s. than any other place in the world. in fact, we've invested over $55 billion here in the last five years - making bp america's largest energy investor. our commitment has never been stronger.

summer means vacations, bar e becues and fun in the sun. also outdoor music festivals including at one national park. here is our power player of the week. >> when you are outdoors in the summer time with open air it's a different atmosphere. ♪ we are talking about the magic of summer music festivals. he's just taken over as head of wolf trap, america's national park for the performing arts outside washington. >> whether it's a classic act, rock or pop or bluegrass or opera, all of it is

representative throughout the summer. >> we saw the range ourselves this week. walking into an opera rehearsal. and then the indigo girls at their sound check. ♪ >> you can listen to a cd or sit in front of a stereo speaker. >> he says there is something different about a concert outdoors. >> the moment that's the best is daylight to evening. it's like the house lights coming down in a theater. it becomes maroon and magenta. finally it is dark and the concert starts. it's something only mother nature can provide. >> as many as 7,000 people come to concerts. >> our cheapest ticket starts at $4 on the lawn. >> what do you get for that? >> we let you bring in food, wine, picnic. >> wolf trap is more than the summer festival.

it has preschool programs in 17 cities. using the arts to teach kids about reading and math. >> about half the class chose shapes up high. >> it's pattern, spatial relations, concepts related to the foundations of math. >> how do you know they have less? >> i counted! >> you counted. >> i grew up in love with music. >> raised in ohio he joined his high school marching band. >> it's hard to march with a baritone sax when it's snowing on you, but i did it and enjoyed it. >> he went into music administration, running the los angeles fill harmon nick and the hollywood bowl. >> there is only one national park for the performing arts. that's a powerful draw. >> he has big plans for wolf trap including bringing in new acts he's not yet ready to announce system we are very much in the kitchen cooking phase. until the dishes are ready, we

just leave them in the kitchen. >> he has no problem talking about the satisfaction of his work. >> what we are doing ultimately only benefits people. that's really all of the goal is to make people's lives brighter, going to a great concert. or seeing your kids prosper and that's a very gratifying feeling at the end of the day. >> while many local school systems have cut their music programs, wolf trap hopes to expand. still no edward snowden. maybe they lost his bag in moscow. that's it for today. have a great week. see you next "fox news sunday." you kids should count yourselves lucky.

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